Ahead of the oral evidence on barriers to working with GPs, APPG chair Kevin Barron pledges the parliamentary inquiry is only the first step  

"I remember when we talked about nurse prescribing. Some of the press statements that came out of the British Medical Association were atrocious."

Sat in an expansive committee room in the Palace of Westminster – we are the only occupants –  Kevin Barron MP reflects on how the medical profession is often slow to change its views.

C+D readers have often had experiences of this. A September survey found that more than half of readers felt GPs lacked understanding of pharmacy's capabilities, and almost as many of the 50 surveyed said GPs lacked respect for pharmacy.

"There's always been this issue," Mr Barron responds. "I'm not surprised about your survey because I think that pharmacists do feel undervalued by other healthcare professionals."

Back in the summer, the all-party pharmacy group (APPG) announced that it would be looking at the barriers to pharmacy's progress, and that it would start by looking at the "barriers created by inter-professional difficulties, in particular between pharmacists and GPs".

But summer feels like a long time ago now, so I decide to start by asking Mr Barron – who chairs the parliamentary group – the most basic of questions: how do we know that the latest inquiry isn't going to be just another talking shop?

"I see my role as chair of the all-party pharmacy group is to... move away from this thing where pharmacists are just there to earn money by issuing prescriptions, as opposed to using all their value in terms of looking after patients. We will put a report out at some stage but I'm afraid there will be lots of things around legislation that's a talking shop so we can't avoid that."

He maintains, however, that it will be a worthwhile exercise; it will simply take time to gather the views of the sector and go from there.

"There's quite a lot of things that need to be looked at, and I'm looking forward to seeing that and seeing what the reaction is, locally and nationally, about the barriers that there are and getting more out of your pharmacist effectively."

Written evidence is coming in at the moment – Mr Barron is reluctant to say how many responses the group has received beyond a "significant number of submissions" – and oral evidence sessions will start in a few weeks.

The worry that the latest inquiry might be more talk than action stems in part from the one into stock shortages. Mr Barron was one of those who grilled ministers on medicines shortages during the first half of this year, presenting ministers with evidence gathered during the APPG's inquiry – including a submission by C+D.

One of the highlights – or perhaps lowlights – of the sessions, to the astonishment of Mr Barron, was the government's claim that it had "no hard evidence" of patient harm from shortages.

"I did say during the enquiry: ‘Do we have to wait while the bodies are brought into the room?' And it seems to me under those circumstances it's careless [for the government] to say things like that."

 "There are problems out there, that's documented; [shortages are] well documented, and [cause] problems for patients who are quite vulnerable if they don't get their pharmaceutical products in a timely fashion, and it can be a threat to health and we have to take this seriously."

The government was set to respond to the APPG's report on stock shortages as C+D went to press, and Mr Barron says he hopes the Department of Health is taking the issue more seriously than it has perhaps done in the past.

"I hope that the minister's got the answers when he meets us in a few days time," Mr Barron says, a hint of frustration in his voice (see p6 for breaking news).

The new NHS

Predictably, perhaps – Mr Barron is Labour MP for Rother Valley, after all – he turns a critical eye on the government's NHS reforms; indeed, on NHS restructuring in general.

"We come along with these changes every five or 10 years, you know by restructuring the NHS we're going to change the culture of the NHS; I'm afraid I don't agree with that."

As we rapidly approach the point at which clinical commissioning groups (CCGs) go live in April next year, concerns are increasingly being aired about potential conflicts of interest. A recent letter from the Guild of Healthcare Pharmacists, which represents about 4,000 pharmacists largely outside of community practice, warned that the NHS Health and Social Care Act did not "impose sufficient safeguards to ensure that commissioners manage conflicts of interest appropriately".

Mr Barron warns such arguments may ultimately lead to lawyers being brought in. "I was on the standing committee when the bill went through the House of Commons, twice, because it was withdrawn and then brought back, and I remember very well those arguments. And these are arguments that lawyers will pick up and run with," he explains.

He also urges CCGs to not leave pharmacists out in the cold, but instead use them for things that, in many cases, they can do better than GPs.

"Managing long-term conditions is something pharmacists can do, and we should recognise that and it should be a part of the NHS family; it should be in there and not forgotten about or discriminated against by any new structure that comes along."

Ultimately, Mr Barron believes the culture of the NHS can only be changed by working with health professionals. It's a vague statement, but he becomes more specific about exactly what's needed – an emphasis on general population health.

"I have to say that as much as I support the national health service, I think you could say that for many years it's been the national ill health service. It engages with people who are ill [but] when you look around at the issues affecting health over the next 50 years this is lifestyle issues."

Rather than fearing for the future, Mr Barron says he is "quite excited" at the prospect of a shift towards preventative health. He is also optimistic that this vision for the health service of the future can include a greater role for community pharmacy.

"I actually think you change the culture [of the NHS] by working with health professionals, by getting doctors to accept that there's another health professional in the community, such as the pharmacist, who can help in caring for patients, particularly with long-term conditions and things like that. It seems to me it's pretty obvious."

Q+A with Kevin Barron MP

Who should take the lead in reforms: professional bodies or grassroots GPs and pharmacists? "I don't see that there's anything wrong with any representative organisations of any shape or form, regulators or not, talking about the use of professional skills in a more joined-up way."

Do you think GPs have a financial interest in pharmacies that are co-located within a GP surgery? "Well, clearly they do. I mean, I can understand it in rural areas; I represent an urban area and I know in my own borough there's at least one GP pharmacy that's opened up under the 100-hour pharmacy plan and that's causing a bit of controversy."

What is next for the APPG? "We'll be looking around at what is happening in pharmacy, not just in terms of GPs but what are pharmacies doing other than sort of turning over prescriptions? What are they doing about lifestyle? Will that carry on under the new regime or the new commissioning?"

Tips for your CPD entry on working with GPs

Reflect What are the barriers to working with your local GP? Plan Consider how you could overcome the main barrier. Act Try your idea out. Evaluate Has your working relationship with your local GP improved?